ISA: The Asian Canadian and Asian Migration Studies Program would like to acknowledge that this podcast was recorded on the traditional, unceded, ancestral homelands of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), and Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish), and səl̓ilwətaɁɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) First Nations.
Hello and welcome back to the ACAM podcast. We hope that this podcast can be a way to continue building connections between ACAM students, staff, faculty and community partners, while also providing our community members with a platform to share similar work they’ve been doing during this time. My name is Isa and I’ll be your host for this episode.
Some fun and exciting news, we’ll be doing monthly releases this school year as well as adding a new segment to the podcast. So please stay tuned.
This week we have another group interview!
So in 2018, Phebe Ferrer hosted ACAM447A, a student directed seminar exploring Filipino identities in diaspora. She and two of the participants in the seminar, Raphael Diangkinay and Jacqueline Sarvini sat down with me to chat questions of Filipinx identity, the student directed seminar format, and the real friends we made along the way. Let’s take a listen.
ISA: So thank you all for joining us here today can everyone hear introduce themselves in a sentence or two?PHEBE: Thanks for having us here. My name is Phebe Ferrer. And my pronouns are she/her.
RAPHAEL: Hi, my name is Raphael Diangkinay. My pronouns are he/him. I’m a basketball fan, volleyball player.
JACKIE: Hello, my name is Jacqueline Sarvini. Jackie, for short. Excited to be here. My pronouns are she/her.
ISA: As the Asian Canadian and Asian migration studies program, we’re always interested in hearing about people’s own experiences of migration. So could you tell us a bit more about your and your family’s migration story?
RAPHAEL: So my family immigrated here in 2012 from the Philippines. From then I started, grade 11, grade 12, moved to different universities, eventually ended up at UBC as an ACAM alumni.
JACKIE: So for myself, I was born and raised in Canada, but my parents, respectively came from their home countries. For my mom, that was the Philippines and for my dad, that’s Iran. Both of them came to Canada around the 80s. And they had me in the mid 90s.
PHEBE: I first came to Canada, in 2012. I grew up moving around a lot. And Canada was the most recent place I had moved to with my family. We first lived in Ottawa, and then we went to Vancouver. My family has since moved on, and they’re living in the States. But I’ve chosen to stay here.
ISA: So how did all of you guys meet?
JACKIE: I think different stories for each of us. But for Phoebe and I we met at this one event called destination UBC. I don’t think it exists anymore at UBC. But it was I think, or it was specifically an event for folks who received an early admission to UBC. And it was basically a barbecue event for people to meet other peers, their professors, events that go on at UBC just so that they could become acclimatized to the campus. Phoebe and I were lining up for the barbecue. And we just started talking to each other. And then we just attended some of the events and the workshops with each other. But after that we didn’t really keep in touch until a few years later when she had reached out to me to talk about this course with each other, just because she wanted to have a full breadth of experience or knowledge about the Filipino experience. And so that was the first time I really chatted with her since meeting her in 2014. And that conversation was 2017 or 2016?
PHEBE: Yeah, it was when I was planning the course. To be honest, I don’t remember anything else about destination UBC. I just remember meeting you and that’s it.
JACKIE: And I think for Raph and I, we met in Phoebe’s course. And then we became friends. And then we’re dating.
PHEBE: It was matchmaking.
RAPHAEL: Yeah. And I met both of them at the student directed seminar.
ISA:So, if I may, what is the origin story of the student directed?
PHEBE: Okay, I have notes. So a rundown of what it was. So basically, the class I had intended it to be like, looking at Filipino, Filipinx identity, and also looking at the history of Filipino migration to Canada. So some of the topics that we covered included the live in caregiver Program, looking at the separation of families as a result of immigration programs, taking people from the Philippines to Canada, particularly Filipinas or Filipino women, looking at mixed identities of various Filipinos, folks, with a slight focus on the Filipino Chinese community, looking at topics like queerness and Filipinoness, looking at the context of the term Indigenous in the Philippines, and how that’s articulated by Filipinos, and also how we articulated here in the land that we now call Canada.
And yeah, I think just also really highlighting the work of community organizations here in Vancouver. Things like the Kababayan Mentorship program. And artists like Joella Cabalu, really just featuring Filipinos from across Vancouver. And in terms of the origin story, honestly, I have really mixed feelings looking back at this course, because I f eel both this sense of like, it’s really cringy to look back at it, because I was like 20 when I made this course. I’m 26 now and I’m like, that’s what she needed at the time was to look at Filipino identity. But holy shit. Why? Why did you do this, but I’m so glad that you did it also. So yeah, it was really because of an identity crisis that I was having at the time. But I turned it really academic because I’m a nerd. Starting from the place of looking at Filipino identity, and then looking at, like I said, the migration of my community here to Canada. And wanting to explore this with my peers.
Something that I tried to do when making the course was really talking to a lot of folks in the community, including Jackie, including other folks like Alyssa Sy de Jesus, who I’m friends with, just to really get the breadth of experience here in Vancouver. As a more recent immigrant here in Canada, I didn’t really feel qualified to talk about the community here. So I wanted to make sure that the course kind of incorporated the various perspectives of different people, young, old in different community organizations. So it wasn’t just my perspective, coloring it. But yeah, there’s something that I tried to do to make sure that’s really informed by community.
ISA: So Raph and Jackie, how did you guys discover the course.
RAPHAEL: So I discovered the course through one of my friends, Evie. She told one of my best friends Moses about the course. And he decided to take the course along with us. And since it was my first semester at UBC, having transferred from another university, I thought it was interesting, I decided to try it out. I’ve never heard of a student directed seminar before that class.
JACKIE: And for myself, I mentioned this earlier, but Phoebe had interviewed me for this course. And so I had this course in the back of my head. But originally, I wasn’t registered to take it. But one or two of our friends who also took the course, Patricia and Gisela, they encouraged me to take the course. And so I decided to drop some electives to take the course. And I’m glad that I did.
ISA: And Jackie mentioned that you interviewed her before the course began. What did you take away from that? Or what did you take away from your process of researching for the course.
PHEBE: Yeah, I think, and maybe this is too broad of a stroke. But really just that it’s complicated. I came into making this course with, like I said, my own Filipino identity crisis. And just seeing the different perspectives on what is important to include in this course, what to talk about. For example, the topic of family separation was a really big one that a lot of people highlighted to me. It’s really important to talk about this. It’s a common experience, not just here in Canada, but also really across the world for Filipino migrants. So just really getting myself out of my own head about what I think about this topic. And yeah, just honestly blown away by the different perspectives that people had, and something that was still also happening in the course itself. Like, people have different perspectives, which is really cool. Yeah.
ISA: And what were some of your favorite topics that you guys examined within the course.
JACKIE: I think for me, just being able to have these conversations, and have them not necessarily devolve, but branch out into just the own personal experiences that each and every person had had in the group. Like there were some folks who were born and raised in the Philippines and then emigrated to Canada later on in life. There were some folks who were born in the Philippines, but immediately moved to Canada. There are some folks who are mixed identity, but still born and raised in the Philippines, then later moved to Canada. Some folks like me, who are mixed race born and raised in Canada, some folks who didn’t even identify as Filipino, but still had that intrinsic need or want or desire to unpack, what does it mean to be x race or x ethnicity. And I think, being able to communicate and engage with those different perspectives, and be able to reflect upon the differences and similarities that all of us have with one another, and see, the common experience that is shared between each of us was really interesting. And I think that it is what led to us becoming really good friends, even five, six years after the course had ended. And so I know this is kind of a cop out of an answer. But I think everything that Phoebe had just mentioned, of all of the topics that were covered in the course, were my favorite, because of all of the breadth of information that everyone was able to share based on their own experiences, or based on what they’ve heard from others, or just even their own reflections of how it meant to them to kind of hear about those stories.
RAPHAEL: Yeah, just to echo what Jackie was saying. I don’t really remember a specific syllabus day by day, just because it felt like all of the conversations were building into one another. And we constantly had to integrate what we talked about on one day to the other day, and it felt like it was just an ongoing conversation less of like a structured topic day by day, because everything was so interconnected.
JACKIE: Actually, I’m gonna add just one more thing, too. I think what was really interesting about this course, is kind of similar to what Phoebe talked about earlier, which is what is being Filipino? And throughout the course, we talked about that topic of what does it mean to be Filipino? Who is qualified to define who a Filipino is? And how do these definitions instead of bringing us together separate us because of these differences, as opposed to the similarities? And I think that that discussion throughout the four months that we were together, even beyond the four months because Raph and I sometimes talk about and reflect upon the course even years later. It’s really interesting, and it’s really thought provoking to have these discussions with like minded individuals and with peers, who either go through this themselves or have observed this themselves from their own perspective. So I think that overarching topic of like what is the Filipino experience. What is the ideal, quote, unquote, Filipino, and who counts as being Filipino was something that we were constantly unpacking throughout the course. And it’s something that there was no, just to be clear, there was never an answer to it. And I think that for me was especially soothing to know that there isn’t an answer. And it’s complicated. And we can rest in that complicatedness.
PHEBE: Want to add that. One more academic quote that I found really helpful throughout the course was this one from Martin Manalansan IV, who’s a Filipino American scholar gonna read this, it’s gonna be very academic-y, but I’ll rephrase it. “To critically understand Filipinos today constitutes a challenge to confront the constellations of meanings around bodily energies that intersect in various arenas, particularly when it comes to making sense of the Filipino nation and its predicament in the 21st century, there are multiple levels or strata that need to be peeled away, not to come up with a common core or a central truth, but to understand the stratigraphic, almost palimpsest like layerings of meaning and matter and the way they move and circulate within and across borders.” Maybe in more laypersons terms. What I really resonate with in this quote, is not coming up with that sense, common core or central truth, because there is none. The construction of the Filipino identity, much like other identities, it’s really ongoing. And we continue to make it as it is, particularly when you look at the diaspora versus the homeland in that kind of binary if you choose to go with that. And even within communities themselves. So similarly, for me, like I found it comforting that there is no answer. I was looking for an answer through this course. And it was actually a little bit frustrating, but there was none initially. But still, several years later, I’m like, I like that. It’s an ongoing conversation. And like you mentioned, one that we’re still having, as we’re growing up.
ISA: I was going through the archived blog and Phoebe mentioned using that transnational theoretical framework. Can you expand a bit more upon that, for those of us who may not know what that is?
PHEBE: Okay, that’s kind of hard, because I had put that there. When I was consulting on the course, my supervisor was Leonora Angeles. And she recommended putting that theory and I was like, ‘Oh, that yeah, that makes sense.’ I think my interpretation of that now, also, not being in the academy is just really understanding Filipinoness, not just in the context of the Philippines, not just in the context of being abroad, but really, like kind of like Manalansan says, like, from everywhere, almost out once. And the relations, not just within borders, but across and even dismantling those borders as well. Yeah.
ISA: Were there moments in the course or like specific conversations that arose that challenged you or surprised you in a way where that might have shifted the way you thought or assumptions that you might have had or beliefs you might have had about the Filipinas identity?
JACKIE: I think for me, dismantling what it meant to be authentically Filipino was such a radical thing. Because growing up, a lot of people would tell me that I am Canadian before I’m Filipino. And when I was younger, because I didn’t have the vocabulary to say something back, I would just simply accept it. And I think part of me accepting that was because so much of the so called qualifications to identify as Filipino, were normally set against me. So I wasn’t born in the Philippines, I didn’t grow up in the Philippines. I don’t speak the dialogue or any other local language within the country. And so because I didn’t have that starter pack, on my side, I wasn’t able to have any kind of I don’t know, I don’t really know what word to use. But I wasn’t able to have any advantages on my side to argue that I am Filipino. But in taking this course, and from hearing these different perspectives from people who have had, like multiple different experiences, I realized that all of these lines that people draw, to define who is and who isn’t Filipino are so arbitrary, because at the end of the day, when we think about the Filipino identity, similar to what Phoebe was saying, it’s so much of it is defined and redefined and redefined again, just so that we are all a or to see ourselves within this complex multitude of an identity that is Filipino or Filipinx. And so, again, I think for me, just being able to challenge the authenticity of what it means to be Filipino was something that was a huge radical shift to pretty much the paradigm that I saw Filipinos for a long time.
RAPHAEL: For me, when I started the class, I was going through a lot. My Lola had passed away. I think one point in the class, I got into a car accident. And I told Phoebe, the second morning that I got into the class. And I was going through, and I felt like I was losing more and more of a sense of my own identity and going through like an existential crisis, like a gender identity crisis, I found that this class was just, there’s a way to be grounded, even when you’re having an existential dilemma, because there’s something meaningful and asking the questions that you don’t have answers to.
PHEBE: I think my answer is very similar. It might even be repetitive. But like I mentioned, I was really hoping for an answer through the course. And then exploring these various things, like, for example, looking at the migration programs that bring Filipinas, Filipinos from the Philippines to Canada, looking at the impacts of that, the different dimensions of identity, from like, queerness to indigeneity, to mixed race. I felt that I was looking for that answer. But there really isn’t a set answer. And in fact, there are other dimensions that I didn’t even think about, like one of our classmates, Fatima brought in the idea of like food systems, and how that also plays a big role. When we were talking about like food, I had positioned it more as like expression of identity authenticity, that she brought in, like access to food, and like being able to have that in the first place, and the kinds of plants and ingredients that you have access to when you’re here versus when you’re in the Philippines or other parts. So also some new perspectives that I didn’t even like, consider and think about. But yeah.
ISA: How did you find the format of the student directed seminar itself?
PHEBE: I’m not sure how much it’s changed, or whether it’s still the same. But I found it interesting, because at least at the time, the program was saying, like, oh, the student is not a professor, they’re not an instructor. But I pretty much was. And that was a very weird kind of relationship. And I think sometimes I still feel weird about it. Like, I was not expected to be the expert, but also I was in the room, I made the syllabus, which was, as you could probably see on the website, kind of imperfect. And again, I cringed, looking back at it. It’s interesting, like, I think it’s a really cool way for students to be able to explore topics that aren’t covered in the current courses or that faculty don’t have the time to cover. But at the same time, the labor that goes into making these is a lot. I remember being really stressed out all the time. And one of my friends now Jessamin, she had done her own student directed seminar at the same time. She’s Filipino Chinese. And we were just talking about how it’s so stressful to do it, while also being really rewarding.
RAPHAEL: I think I remember, one of the things that I had noticed when, like in the first few classes was, I really felt that like, although, like Phebe was like this professor, like, quote, unquote, that they were also learning with us. And that the things that would, that we would talk and discuss about would really impact them. And it was a little bit difficult for me to navigate just because I had never been in a student directed seminar before. And my automatic response was to like go into the class and look for a professor who probably had the answer to a question I was seeking. And I think it also taught me that professors are just people that they don’t have all of these answers that we’re looking for, even though they may spend more time researching and studying that there are some, like bigger questions that they also don’t have answers to. And I think that was one of my introductions into thinking that way.
ISA: And so what, what were some of the projects and connections to come out of the seminary?
PHEBE: I think first of all, Jackie mentioned this, but just like the circle of friends that came out from the course, it’s the friends we made along the way that matters the most. Honestly, like, like they, Raph and Jackie have both said, I don’t quite remember the topics that we covered as an in detail. But I do remember the way that this cheesy, but the way they made me feel the way that I was inspired to keep learning, and things like that. So it’s really, I think, the community that came out of the course. Not so much about projects.
RAPHAEL: I think, I feel like when it came to thinking about projects, it’s more so the ideas that I picked up in that class informed everything else that I would do later on, like, it informs every single way that I approached an essay like moving forward, like the things that I wanted to write about when it came to like, focusing on papers, the way that everything…I would read, like a new theory in a different English class. And I would think about how this theory, like, would work in the discussion of Filipino identity.
JACKIE: I think to add to that too, I know that for our final project, we presented it in what was the community house again? Migrante. So I remember with that presentation, we were encouraged to reach out to our friends or family to see if they wanted to be in attendance with our presentation or while we were giving that presentation. And I remember reaching out to my old history teacher from when I was in high school, because he’s Filipino himself. And I asked him if he wanted to attend and he wasn’t able to. But he emailed me back and he said, like what you’re doing right now, Jackie, it makes me really proud that you’re doing a lot of this work, and that you’re reconnecting and connecting with a lot of Filipinos in the community, and are building your connections and doing something that’s really inspiring. And I remember reading that and feeling like academia doesn’t just have to be in the classroom. It can also expand in more accessible ways in the community.
ISA: So all three of you went through the ACAM program? Is that correct? So what are your hopes for the ACAM program moving forward?
PHEBE: So I’ve always kind of felt that ACAM focuses more on Chinese Canadian histories. And it was founded on Japanese Canadian activism. And not necessarily that it felt that excluded other histories. But I just felt that other histories were undercovered. And I recognize it’s due to various factors. Like, there’s so much there’s only so much that this program can do. It’s a small staff team. Faculty don’t have all the time, but just felt that there wasn’t actually that there wasn’t any about Southeast Asian communities South Asian. So just wanting to contribute to that from a Filipino perspective, I guess. And I hope that it’s gotten a bit better as well.
JACKIE: Yeah, I think on my end, as a student in this course, I felt like I was able to really relate to what was being discussed in the course. And the syllabus itself was really interesting to me, since it covered a lot of the things that were always in the back of my mind and wanting to be able to explore more and to be able to talk about it with like minded individuals. And I think, in a lot of the courses that are otherwise offered in UBC, at least at the time, they were very much coded in so much Bro-y type of behavior and language and that isn’t something that I would have wanted to really engage with, especially when it touches on sensitive topics that this course had touched upon, especially when they’re so personal to so many of the students who were involved in the course, and even students who weren’t involved they I feel like so much was discussed in this course that I hope is now also incorporated in other course syllabi in a way that is aware of the subject at hand and is sensitive to how things can be discussed in like a community driven way similar to how Phebe had constructed the course in the first place.
RAPHAEL: And I think also, it’s hard sometimes when you have conversations with other people about similar topics where sometimes there is this assumption that because you’re Asian, that it’s an Asian discussion, whereas but the but some parts of our histories that identities are so complex, sometimes that it’s hard to just have like a be all end all conversation, although sometimes the conversations are linked. There are specific things that always come in when it comes to talking about specifically like Filipino identity that is sometimes harder to talk about with, with other folks of Asian descent.
ISA: Were there things that you wish you’d done differently in the scope of the course?
PHEBE: Yeah, I wish. Looking back at the syllabus for this conversation, I felt how each of the weeks could have been its own course, they were just such large topics that I didn’t really think about at the time, I wanted to cover it. But each week could have been its own course. I think I might have been more selective with the readings, there was a lot, I felt like I was just pouring information into it. So being a little bit more selective. But I think also, I think one thing that works really well on the course was inviting folks from community to speak. And I think I would have put even more of that. I want to say too, I’m super grateful and forever indebted to the Filipino academics here at UBC and who have since left as well, including Leonora Angeles, Ron Darvin, Karla Comanda, Cesi Cruz, and many more who really inspired this course, as well as focus and community including I mentioned earlier, the Kababayan Mentorship program, Joella Cabalu for her art, Francis Arevalo for his music, all of these folks who came in, so forever grateful for them for that.
RAPHAEL: I remember the day that Leonora Angeles came to speak, I think it was something that’s very clear in my mind, just because I think I remember at the end of the her talk and the discussion, like at the end, when she was just talking to us, she was just inviting us to kind of think of ourselves in terms of what we could be in the future. That was a really big thing for me, where she, I think I remember she said something along the lines of, like, you know, there’s millions of Filipino nurses here, you could become a teacher for those nurses, because that would be a very profitable industry to go into. And then there was just like, all these different kinds of practical advice of ways that you could look at your academic career or looking at your learning into the future, and how you could envision yourself within the place of the community here. That was something that was very big for me, because I felt like at the time, I didn’t know what shape my career was going to take. Because I was a student. I didn’t know what I was going to do after graduating. And so I think that was, that was very, that was very big for me to also just see a Filipino professor, because I don’t think I had seen one in North America up until that point in time.
ISA: What are your takeaways? And I’ve asked this question, in different forms, but what are your takeaways from the seminar? And how that maybe influenced your life beyond the scope of the course?
JACKIE: Kind of going back to the very beginning of this conversation, when Phebe said, It’s about all of the friends you make along the way, I think it genuinely is about all the friends you make along the way. Because even though this course was situated to be an academic course, for us to earn credits to be able to graduate, it was still such a fulfilling course, not just in terms of fulfilling those requirements, but also being able to make those connections, those peer to peer based connections. And I think, like for me, I grew up in a very racialized neighborhood. And so I was always surrounded by a lot of people who were of mixed identity or who, like myself are second generation immigrants. But to be in a course where all of the topics that we discussed were, and still are heavily based on the Filipino experience. It made me feel very connected to a lot of the people who were in the course, and who I still see on a day to day basis, whether it be again, like every day or week by week, month to month. But regardless, I think that course gave us a way to be able to kind of circle back and say, man, just just thinking about it five years ago, can you believe that was what we discussed, and then seeing how each of us grown since then, and all of the things that we’ve accomplished, since then, because a lot of us were in our final year, during that time. And to know that that was five years ago, and to see how much growth we’ve been able to achieve since the beginning of that course, is very remarkable. And it makes me very proud to because to be able to celebrate those small victories with with all of them, Phebe, Raph, everyone from the class, it really does solidify that student directed seminars and ACAM as a whole really does have a special place on the UBC campus and in the community, itself.
RAPHAEL: I think for me, it’s also changed the way that I approach some of the conversations that I didn’t know how to handle before, particularly with like family members who I have like, although maybe not my parents, or my titos, or titas, but my cousins, who are asking the same kind of questions, but don’t have the privilege that I had of being able to take this class and to be with a group of like minded folks who had this kind of conversation, being able to guide them through a similar type of conversation and to hear their own input their own feedback, and hopefully the extent of the conversations that they eventually have with their community or their friends.
PHEBE: It’s honestly so touching to hear that the course was that for you both. I think I talked a lot about it from a very personal perspective, because for me, it was a personal project, there was me looking for answers. But just to know that it’s, it’s just touched you in that way, and just makes me so happy. And just want to echo what Jackie said, like, how we’ve grown since then, and how we continue to grow from there. I think it’s my main takeaway just for me, if I was looking for answers, then I thought that would end my questions. It was really just maybe the beginning of me asking those questions. And I’ve continued asking them throughout now, and I very much relate to talking to family about this even family in the Philippines, my cousins around my age, who surprisingly think very similar things even while staying there due to various reasons, like speaking mostly English, rather than Tagalog even when they’re there, but just the continuing conversations and just seeing our continued growth is just really cool.
[ACAM voice mail]
ISA: Hey, this is Isa. This is the new segment, it’s called ACAM voice mail, and the theme is Asian Canadian joy. Going forward I’ll be collecting these voice messages from our podcast guests and other ACAM friends, But for this week, it’s just me.
It’s sort of a busy time in the school term and work year, I suppose. We’re trying to do more episodes of the podcast, midterms are kicking in, I’m trying to produce a series of photo essays, one of which is about migratory birds so i gotta track them down, and I’m trying to write. Uh but yeah, you don’t need a laundry list of all that.
In the midst of all this chaos, the moments of joy I’ve felt this week are sort of all food related, which is very on brand for ACAM. If you’ve been to an ACAM event, you know we love to have good food, and we love to talk about food. The instructors in the ACAM course I’m taking brought Daifuku last week, this red bean paste mochi, and my friends who know I haven’t been really eating well have been making or delivering food to me.
I’ve never been a foodie. But I’m thinking about how migratory birds bulk up on food they’ll later use for energy on their long journeys.
I’m trying to remember that work can be joyous. That we are not rushing to and from points, this is not a means to an end. And that nourishing ourselves along the way, and taking care of ourselves and each other, is how things get done.
I’m thankful there are people who feed me. So on that note I hope you eat well and stay warm during this time.
[Beep.]
ISA: You just heard an interview with Phebe Ferrer, Raphael Diangkinay and Jacqueline Sarvini, as well as a voice message from myself. As always links in the show notes.
Thank you for sticking along to the end. If you have an idea for an episode of the ACAM podcast, we’d love to hear from you. Send us your ideas by emailing us at acam.program@ubc.ca. To be notified when the next podcast episode is released and to stay up to date on all things ACAM, please follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @UBCACAM and like us on Facebook at Asian Canadian and Asian Migration Studies UBC.